the rachel maddow show, transcript 03/28/13

by:Gewinn     2019-09-15
Host Rachel Cherry: Thank you for being at home and for joining us this hour as well.
The murder of the Colorado warden has taken a new turn tonight, and the second person has been arrested in the murder.
Now, the story here is this: last week, Tuesday night, just hours before the governor of Colorado was about to sign the state\'s historic new gun legislation, just hours before the bill was signed, the head of the Colorado prison, he was at home, someone rang the doorbell, he went to the door, was shot at the door.
The next day, Colorado governor hikenroper announced the murder at an early morning emotional news conference, and he continued to sign the bill as planned.
The next day, on Thursday, 600 miles north of central Texas, a sheriff\'s deputy tried to park for a routine traffic violation, A car that matches the description of the car that was seen the night of the murder near the Colorado warden Tom Clement\'s house.
When the sheriff\'s deputy tried to pull him over because of the obvious red light, the car driver pulled out the gun, fired three shots at the deputy and took off.
100 miles-an-
After an hour of car chase in Texas.
It ended in a crash and then exchanged fire with the police.
The driver of the car was shot dead by police that day.
Later we learned that the gunman, who was a parole offender, had been in and out of Colorado prison for ten years and was recently released, and that he was held in solitary confinement for a long time in January.
The Texas law enforcement department reported that the suspect also had materials inside the car that made the bomb.
So, obviously, the Texas authorities are very interested in where the young man is going next with a bomb --
Make materials.
Crucially, the authorities also reported that their ballistic test of the governor found in Texas showed that the gun used in the crossfire with Texas police was the same gun, the gun that killed Colorado warden Tom Clements.
Now, however, a second person has been arrested in conjunction with the murder.
Was arrested last night.
Today is the trial.
The Denver Post today published photos of the arrested lawyer trying to avoid being photographed at the time of trial.
The person arrested in the case was a 22-year-old young woman who reportedly lives in a commercial city in Colorado with her parents.
Her relationship with the suspect who died in the murder of Tom Clement is not yet clear.
But she was arrested or accused of giving him the gun.
Remember, he was released from prison only on January.
He is a criminal.
Convicted criminals are not legally allowed to acquire firearms.
That is the purpose of the background check, and that is why the background check should apply to the arguments of all gun sales, so that no matter where the offender tries to buy a gun, they are blocked by the background check system.
Well, in this case, it is alleged that the way the suspect Evan Ebel addresses the issue of background checks, because he is a heavy criminal, is unable to pass the background checks, his solution to the problem was to get her to buy the gun and he asked her to buy it because she could go through the background check so once she got the gun she handed it over to him.
If that\'s what happened to this arrest and what was charged, it\'s called buying straw.
It is illegal to buy straw.
But it\'s not illegal.
The Denver Post called the head of the ATF Denver division to learn something about this new arrest, new developments in the case.
He told them to quote, \"there is no punishment as a straw purchaser.
Drug cartels know, gang members know.
\"A few weeks ago, when Democrats, through the Senate Judiciary Committee, put forward some of the contents of President Obama\'s proposed gun reform, the measure would increase the penalties for buying straw, that would make it a felony and a bigger deal, the measure passed outside the committee, and all Democrats voted on the committee, but only one Republican, iowa Senator Chuck Grassley is the only one, and all the other Republican senators on the committee have voted against strengthening penalties for the purchase of straw, penalties for those who buy weapons, because they can pass the background check, then they will deliberately pass the weapon to someone who can\'t pass the background check.
The senators voted against it in the Committee, Orrin Hatch, Lindsey Graham, John Cornyn, Mike Lee, Ted Cruz, Jeff Flake, and Jeff Sessions.
They all voted against increasing penalties for straw purchases.
There\'s this news today.
Also today, new information about the shooting at Newtown Primary School in Connecticut has been released in large numbers-in some cases, this information is different from what we previously thought.
In the detailed, very long search warrant report released today by Connecticut state prosecutor, we learned a lot about Sandy Hook.
We learned a variety of weapon records from home to the Sandy Hook Elementary shooter, as well as many different knives, swords and blades.
Some guns, including the guns that the gunman used to kill his mother before going to school that morning, as well as a large number of guns, all kinds of ammunition, a large number of shotgun ammunition, some pistol ammunition and rifle ammunition, gunmen used these ammunition at Sandy Hook elementary school to kill 20 grade 1st students and 6 adults.
We also learned more and different details today than before, telling us how Sandy Hook\'s gunners did so much damage and killed so many children, so quickly shot so many people that it ended before the police arrived, even though the police responded within minutes.
We were told before that the killer had shot 152 bullets in less than five minutes.
We were still told it was less than five minutes, but now we are told it was 154 bullets.
Citing the prosecutor\'s words today, \"the gunman opened fire on the building with a Bushmaster, killing 20 children and 6 adults.
XM 15 223 caliber model.
150-four spent .
223 shells were found from the scene.
It is currently estimated that the gunman shot at the school less than five minutes before committing suicide.
Three of them were found on the Gunners. 30-
Bushmaster\'s round magazine, each containing 30 bullets, is located in the shooting area, and the other 6 magazines contain zero bullets and 10 rounds of 11 rounds and 13 rounds respectively.
So, this is really new information here.
When the mask is discovered, new and potentially important information about the mask is not all empty.
They\'re all 30 years old.
Round magazine, extended magazine, this extended-size magazine was banned for sale under an assault weapons ban that expired in 2004.
Suppose all 30-
The round magazine began to fill, and he put 30 bullets in each magazine, which means that he shot all 30 bullets in the first magazine, thirty rounds in the third magazine in the seconds magazine, but the other three didn\'t cross them all the way before he dropped them and loaded the new complete.
I mean, if he leaves 10 rounds, 11 rounds and 13 rounds in those magazines, he drives out what they found on the spot, that means he didn\'t go through them all the way. he didn\'t shoot 30 of them.
He shot 20 bullets, 19 bullets, 17 bullets, then popped out of the magazine and got a new one.
When they found him, there were bullets in the rifle.
Hartford coolant reported today that the Gunners only stopped shooting because the gun was obviously stuck.
\"Courant\" also reported today, citing, \"the police theory is that the gunman may have been simulating video games he likes to play, before he moved from room to room, by turning off the empty ammunition in the jungle
Switching magazines constantly is a feature of hardcore players so they don\'t lose ammo when they enter the room.
\"Whether it\'s really what he\'s doing or not-remember, as a police theory,\" Courant \"agrees with that, whether it\'s really what he\'s doing, we can now know for sure that the Gunners only use the bulk magazine in Sandy Hook and we know it\'s an option.
Today, we know he used 30-
They allowed him to do the most damage in a very short period of time, and we now know that he left the magazine with a lower capacity at home.
Remember, we have a search warrant now, so now we know what\'s there.
Every bit of ammunition and every gun in the gunner\'s house is considered legally purchased.
His mother did not buy illegal or illegally modified weapons on the black market.
She buys guns and ammunition like law-abiding citizens.
She bought something legal.
If the assault weapons ban is not allowed to expire on 2004 or be brought back after it expires, she can only purchase 10 round magazines.
She and her son have at least one magazine in their well without an extension. armed home.
But think about it, why take it to the scene where you want to kill as many first year students as possible?
Why bring it to elementary school?
Why small 10-round magazine?
Why 10-
When you can kill more people faster with big magazines, will you choose round magazines?
So leave that at home, but bring 30-rounders.
Part of the common wisdom of the ring road, nothing happens, but there\'s a Connecticut effect, it\'s disappearing and people don\'t care anymore, so, the NRA will win again, because no one is willing to stick to the very popular policy that they oppose-the one that the NRA opposes.
One of the components of this common wisdom is that the president cannot focus on such issues for a long time.
The president will not continue to focus on these things after the direct impact disappears.
The president will not hold on to the inertia the NRA expects.
This is not the case with the president.
The president has been relentless for 100 consecutive days on this issue.
Today, President Obama hosted the family of Sandy Hook from Newtown at the White House.
If you wait long enough, we won\'t care about him any more. (
Start Video Editing)
US President Barack Obama: I read an article in the news the other day wondering if Washington missed the opportunity because, over time, after Newtown, somehow, people start to move on and forget?
I\'ll tell you the people here. they won\'t forget it.
Grace\'s father did not forget.
Hadia\'s mother hasn\'t forgotten yet.
Two or three months later, something as terrible as Newtown was born, and we have turned to something else-it\'s not who we are.
That\'s not who we are.
I want to make sure every American is listening today.
The whole country was shocked less than 100 days ago.
The whole country has promised that we will do something about it, and this time it will be different.
If we forget it, it\'s a shame.
I don\'t forget the kids.
If we forget it, it\'s a shame.
Tears are not enough. it is not enough to express sympathy.
Speech is not enough.
We have cried enough, we have known a lot of heartbreak.
Our proposal is not radical.
It will not deprive anyone of their gun rights.
If we are serious, we will do it. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: now we are joined by Senator Richard Blumenthal, a senior senator from Connecticut.
Senator Blumenthal, thank you very much for being here tonight.
I really appreciate your time, sir. SEN.
Richard blumenthal (D)
Connecticut: Thank you.
Nice to be with you again.
President Obama said today that if we take it seriously, we will do something about gun safety.
You and I have talked about whether this will happen.
In more than 100 days, what do you evaluate the trajectory we are in?
BLUMENTHAL: we will have the votes.
The president called for a vote for all American victims and their families, which will take place on April.
In the coming weeks, we are faced with a critical task, which the president described very, very eloquently and forcefully, that is, to mobilize the majority of Americans, 90% and 80%, it\'s common sense and sensible measures against gun violence and make sure to hear them.
The president is very excited to say that there is nothing more powerful than the millions of voices calling for change.
But these voices are the majority of silence, need to be vocal, need to be motivated and organized.
So I think the vote against illegal trafficking can be held there.
The example you described earlier involved Evan Ebel, who killed Colorado\'s correctional officer Tom Clement and killed another person on his way to shooting a police officer who tried to arrest him.
Classic straw purchases will be banned and should be banned under the Senate bill.
Background checks to prevent him from possessing weapons, crazy people like Adam Lanza can enter.
You know, Arsenal were absolutely amazing in the amount of bullets, ammunition and bullets in that war.
We need to make sure that those ammunition and guns don\'t fall into the hands of dangerous people.
Finally, school safety and mental health issues, and I think there is a lot of support for these core provisions.
We need Americans to remind my colleagues in the Senate that their voices must be heard.
MADDOW: What impressed me today is that we recorded ruthless political activity on this issue in this show, and the common wisdom of the ring road means that people will forget it, because people will stop talking about it.
People have been talking about this issue, partly because there is too much political pressure on the organization.
People will not let go of this at the grass-roots level.
But today, I suddenly think of these new revelations, both the new town shooting and the Colorado Correctional police shooting, part of the reason why stress doesn\'t feel relaxed is because every day there are new revelations about the new and terrible national impact of gun violence.
It seems that, as long as we think gun violence has political consequences, the mere use of gun violence in the country is sufficient to keep it in the headlines.
I want to know if you look like this.
BLUMENTHAL: I think this rampant violence.
Remember, 2,500 more people have been killed since Newtown.
I think 30,000 people died of gun violence a year.
In the urban environment and suburbs, this problem is bothering the communities and streets of our country.
Everyone has a stake all over the country.
I think it is true that repeated actions have a political impact.
But the revelations about the Newtown search warrant have also made people realize that the size of the magazine is indeed different.
As you said, Adam Lanza left the small-capacity magazine at home because he knew that the more bullets he could fire, the more deadly he was, the more destructive he was.
The same is true of AR. 15.
So that\'s why I\'m going to help lead a ban on offensive weapons and high-volume magazines that will be provided as an amendment.
This may not be part of the core bill in the Senate, but it will make it, and I hope there will be a vote.
Madu: Senator Richard Blumenthal, senior senator from Connecticut, member of the Senate Judicial Committee-thank you for being here tonight, sir.
I really appreciate your willingness to come back. Thank you.
BLUMENTHAL: Thank you.
MADDOW: the people in the gun reform debate say that assault rifles and other types of rifles have no functional difference, and that there is a difference between a large magazine and a general magazine, and people who shoot at them on a large scale think there is a difference.
Gunners in Newtown 10-
He bought a round magazine at home and spent his 30 s when he went to that school.
He also left a bolt rifle at home and took half of it.
Automatic assault rifle
When they strategically want to kill a lot of people at the same time, they make these decisions.
We can also adopt strategies in this regard.
I will be back soon. (
Business break)
MADDOW: Today is the day when the Obama team was formed.
Biden, the organization of the operation, was re-elected. today is the day when they carry out gun reform activities across the country.
Today, from West Palm Beach, Florida, to norrytown, Pennsylvania, to Indiana, to Phoenix, to many cities across the country, it is reported that, more than 100 of these rallies and events are planned by organizing actions against illegal firearms and mayors.
The mayor, who opposes illegal guns, has also launched this rather powerful new advertisement. Check it out. (
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified male: We dropped Jesse off on the morning of December 14, gave me a hug and kiss and said, I love you, Dad, I love your mom too.
Our daughter Grace is seven years old.
She can\'t wait to go to school.
She will skip the driveway.
My sister likes to teach in Sandy Hook.
Every student will say, I hope I can getSoto next year.
Lauren likes children. she always wants to be a teacher.
Unidentified male: I got a call from 911 and there was a shooting incident at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Unidentified women: we need to remember the 26 victims who lost their lives.
She just wants to teach children.
That\'s her goal. she\'s dead.
It was the last day I saw Jesse alive.
Unidentified male: I want to stop any other family from going through what we are going through.
Unidentified woman: don\'t do something real, don\'t fade the memories of the new town.
Announcer: Call for action now. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: This ad should be broadcast on both cable and radio, especially in Connecticut.
It aims at the Connecticut state legislature.
That means getting them to implement gun reforms in Newtown\'s state, such as a comprehensive background check and a ban on high-volume magazines.
New York state and Colorado have taken such actions since Newtown, but Connecticut has not.
Democrats in Connecticut say they plan to pass any new bill since the new town, but have not yet passed it.
Frankly, not only is the mayor opposed to illegal guns, but everything they do now is a bit overspeed.
In addition to these ads and OFA\'s 100 events across the country today, they announced a $12 million ad purchase earlier this week, a huge purchase, it\'s a huge pair, and the group says they think their most influential state will buy $12 million in advertising for ads, with the upcoming Senate voting on gun control work.
Mayors Against Illegal Guns have scheduled this huge ad purchase to be suspended from Congress.
There is no meeting between the House and the Senate.
They are resting.
The idea of playing the ad now is that the senators are at home in their area and they will see the ad broadcast in the media in their hometown, as will their constituents. (
Start Video Editing)
Guns are for me to hunt and protect my family.
I believe in the second amendment and I will try to protect it.
But the right brings responsibility.
That\'s why I support a comprehensive background check so criminals and dangerous mentally ill people can\'t buy a gun.
Protect the rights of me and my family
Announcer: Tell Congress not to protect criminals, vote to protect gun rights and our families through a comprehensive background check.
Call for action now. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: It\'s an ad for $12 million.
It targets 15 senators, 10 Republicans and 5 Democrats.
One of the five Democrats, Joe Donnelly of Indiana, came out this week to show his support for background checks.
If you want to know if this strategy is likely to work more broadly, then there is an indicator that is correct and thinks it will work.
They seem to be worried enough that this may be effective because they are panicking about it.
Our friend Fox News channel across the street has begun to condemn this ad as fake-obviously, it\'s fake because there is obviously no truly responsible gun owner who would advocate a background check on gun purchases
They have now decided to be in Fox dayside, and now on Fox\'s morning show, you can tell the reason for this ad that it is impossible to describe a real gun owner, because as you can see in the advertisement, he is pointing a gun at the children.
Seriously, this is the point that Fox News has assured viewers in these states that they will see ads worth $12 million, because it is impossible for a real gun owner to support background checks.
Fox says you can see in this ad that he is not a truly responsible gun owner with a shotgun because, as you can see in the ad, he points the ad to the kids.
This is what Fox News is describing now.
For blind people watching Fox News, this is a good argument, who can\'t see the ad in person and let people who don\'t lie to what the ad actually shows describe to them, the way Fox News will lie to them.
Makes you feel like it\'s under their skin, isn\'t it? (
Business break)
The guest I came to the show tonight was Mr.
Chris Hayes at 8: 00
Chris Hayes at 8: 00
Chris Hayes at 8: 00
Just keep saying that. (
Business break)
MADDOW: March 29, 1973 was a chaotic day in the building I\'m sitting in now.
I know it\'s confusing, not because I was here in March 29, 1973.
I\'m a few days away from birth.
I know it was chaotic here that night, because what happened that night from the air from this building to NBC News.
That\'s how NBC Evening News aired that night.
Now, as a general rule of thumb for television, remember that black screens without pictures are not a good thing, especially during the \"Evening News\" period.
But that\'s what they did that night. (
Start Video Editing)
On March 29, 1973, the day will be in history, and the day when any United States ends its active participation in the Vietnam War and the day when Americans pray finally comes. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: no pictures at all.
The visual effects of the main story of \"Evening News\" all failed.
But it\'s not enough to kill the story of the protagonist, because the story of the protagonist is a huge historical transaction for Harry.
On March 29, 1973, 40 years ago tomorrow, the last batch of US troops left Vietnam. nine years after the Tokyo Bay incident, we were told that a North Vietnamese vessel opened fire on an American destroyer for no reason.
Nearly 60,000 Americans were killed in that war, and tomorrow, 40 years ago, our last combat unit left Vietnam.
We believe that the war in Vietnam has fundamentally changed our country. It really did.
I mean, it changed us in a variety of different ways, even for those who didn\'t fight in war.
The campaign to stop the war ended up having a profound social impact on our country, defining a decade or more for the anti-war
The war movement and those who are not in the movement, but who see the politics of our country changed by war.
In terms of foreign policy, Vietnam has changed us so much that something like the Tokyo Bay disaster should not happen.
We should not be involved in another war in which our leaders are dishonest about why we are involved in this war.
We shouldn\'t have done that again.
We did it again, of course, but at least we don\'t think it should happen.
Vietnam\'s other way of changing us should have changed our country, especially those Americans who fought there-long, very bloody, the clashes between the guerrillas were carried out by those who were called up to go there, and they did not want to go there to fight, but they were forced to go there.
Then, after our troops came home from the war, we sent them to fight, often with too many rules, we do not separate the fact that those who do not choose to fight or those who choose to fight from the fact that the war they fight is an unpopular war.
More than 2.
5 million Vietnam veterans are not as popular as they should be.
This gives them too much time and not the health care, benefits and policy attention they deserve, and when they go there they get the commitment.
After Vietnam, whether it changed our country or not, we vowed that when Vietnamese veterans came home they would be treated and we vowed that this would not happen again.
We will not make that mistake again.
We will no longer and no longer intensify the impact of the war itself on veterans by not respecting them --
Even if we don\'t like the war, we should serve on time.
The aftermath of the Vietnam War has made our country a non-partisan commitment.
But now, with the end of the war in Iraq and the end of the war in Afghanistan, at least in front of us, when it comes to how we treat our veterans, when we came home from the long war of our generation, we were screwing up something.
This is not like after Vietnam.
Its profile is very different and there is still a problem.
When our veterans go home with a disability and are unable to work due to their services, they apply for disability benefits.
Those new first
For some people who spend years, the time claim takes an average of 9 months to process.
The welfare backlog at the Department of Veterans Affairs is embarrassing.
The issue did not begin under President Obama\'s leadership, but in the course of his administration, it has not been better so far.
It\'s getting worse.
Part of the problem is that over the past few years we have more veterans who are eligible for a variety of benefits.
But these are policy changes.
So, they are open, and we know that the consequences will be more veterans in the system.
Over the past decade, we have returned more veterans from war than ever before.
But this is foreseeable.
V of the Obama administration. A.
There are just more claims that need to be dealt.
This is true, but it is also purposeful.
Yes, V. A.
I know there will be more veterans coming home to file disability claims, but they haven\'t come up with a system that can handle this.
Now, it seems a bit silly from the story\'s coverage and the country\'s awareness of the story, but I think, how many people know the story and can repeat its basics to you, this is very important.
I think the story made at the Comedy Center last night is important.
\"Jon Stewart\'s Daily Show\" tells the story, and as they have been doing there, they have done a great job in that.
Because of this, there are many more people who know about this than others. (
Start Video Editing)
Comedy Center Jon Stewart: The Department of Defense used a medical tracking program called AHLTA, while V. A.
Use an advanced program called VistA.
I swear to you that the two programs are not able to communicate with each other and that\'s true.
How crazy is this complication?
Even an analogy that explains that two computer systems cannot work together has fundamental flaws. REP. JEFF MILLER (R)
Let me use this metaphor.
Xbox and PlayStation can play the same game on the same TV screen, but they don\'t chat together.
This makes sense.
The thing is this: Xbox and PlayStation don\'t talk because they are competitors.
Their mission is to destroy each other, which is not the relationship we expect government departments to take care of disabled veterans, nor is it the relationship that government departments create disabled veterans. (CHEERS)
Stewart: So I think you can spin there, so I think you can spend a billion dollars in four years trying to get one kid\'s Xbox game to work with another kid\'s PlayStation game, or as a parent or commander of a family --in-
Sir, you can order us to use the Xbox. (END VIDEO CLIP)MADDOW: The V. A.
I know there\'s a problem with it. The V. A.
Not defending the backlog, nor saying it\'s not a problem, but they said the situation would get better even so far, they have been saying it for a long time and there is no evidence that this is true.
It\'s not getting better, it\'s still getting worse.
On V a few days ago. A.
He talked about it after covering it for a long time.
Tommy soles, a veteran of the war in Iraq, is now an assistant secretary for the war in Iraq. A.
He\'s here to talk to us about the backlog.
I appreciate that he did it because it\'s not V. A.
The solution to this problem.
For a long time, they were very reluctant to talk to the state media.
So, I\'m glad to have a doctor.
The Sol people talked about it instead of me screaming about it in 12 months.
But I have to say that we need to learn from that interview now.
I asked the doctor on Tuesday.
Sors, what would a typical new veteran coming back from Afghanistan say, a new veteran who is dealing with post-traumatic stress is unable to work for this reason, and that hypothetical new veteran would be against V. A.
Disability claims process.
That\'s what Tommy soles said. (
Start Video Editing)
Sol people: there is immediate assistance in terms of actual treatment.
So we have a veteran crisis line. 800-273-TALK.
More than 700,000 veterans, active servicemen and their families have called this number.
They can walk into any of our 1,300 care points.
There are five veterinary centers in New York.
This is an opportunity for veterans and their families to help with the re-adjustment.
So I want to make sure they get the help they need. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MADDOW: I want to make sure they get the help they need.
General Eric Shinseki, Minister of Veterans Affairs, expressed this and we are open to business.
Veterans can walk into the impact of any gameA.
Hospitals or clinics and immediate access to health care, especially new veterans, I must make it clear that this is not always the case.
In fact, according to V. A.
My own number, less than half, less than half of the new veterans in the veteransA.
It\'s acceptable in two weeks.
This is according to V. A.
You ask the Government Accountability Office that they don\'t actually know how long it will take to see a doctor, \"The bottom line is, it\'s not clear how long veterans are waiting for care in V. A.
Medical facilities because of data reported from V. A. are unreliable.
This is the report of the Government Accountability Office.
We have contacted V. A.
Today, they re-emphasize that they do provide emergency services to veterans of the Veterinary Center, the call crisis hotline referred to by Tommy, 1-800-273-
It\'s a great way to get emergency crisis care right away.
However, do people get the help they need in addition to the emergency, or V. A.
It\'s not true that they deserve it, and they deserve it at all times.
It\'s a bad situation, it\'s a situation where we as a nation promise never to screw up again.
How is this resolved?
Joining us now is the smartest person I know, Chris Hayes.
Chris Hayes has a name for his new show.
It\'s called \"all with Chris Hayes.
Premiered at 8: 00 on Monday night. m.
East, on MSNBC. Mr.
Congrats Hayes
Chris Hayes, MSNBC host: Thank you very much.
Are you completely overwhelmed by the preparations?
Yes, yes. I`m swamped.
What I want to say is to be overwhelmed.
Although there is not much work, there is a lot of work to do.
MADDOW: you\'re planning an ambitious show, which is different from any other show, and anyone has done it on cable.
It\'s a lot like what you do on the weekend, but it\'s not exactly the same.
Hayes: That\'s right.
Yes, I think-with some adjustments to the timeliness of the day\'s news and the necessary logistical emergencies per night. MADDOW: Yes.
Hayes: how many people can we book and how many people can we book in advance.
But that\'s more.
Voice and dialogue, many different voices and curiosity together, find areas of tension, disagreement and conflict that are surprising or fresh, or we don\'t rehearse every day in national politics. MADDOW: Right.
In all the media, I want to say, about your release, everyone says you and I are very similar, we are peas in a pod, or, you know, you are-you have this 8: 00 show showing this.
We think-we treat this work very, very differently. HAYES: Yes.
There will be a big difference in our program.
I-one of the reasons I like to talk to you about big puzzles like this that don\'t have simple answers is that I feel like you have a lot of good
Take different approaches to difficult things.
When you look at VA.
Backlog, you look at getting all this new attention, you see there is no bipartisan disagreement at this point, but the situation is getting worse and worse, what do you think is the way out for it?
Hayes: So, I think there\'s something interesting here.
First, it makes us think, what is the actual political power of veterans in our society, because in some ways, the evidence is in the pudding, right?
So, they get the rhetorical honor, and then they have the actual power, right?
In a political system like ours, the way you see power is the result.
This illustrates the power and status that veterans actually have in American society, not society-we tell ourselves the power or status that they have.
MADDOW: all the verbal services we pay and all the emotional comfort we get from entertaining our own ideas, for those who can\'t get into V. , the value we treat veteransA.
First mental health appointment
Hayes: there\'s evidence in the pudding. MADDOW: Yes.
Hayes: there\'s evidence in the pudding.
I think the other thing it says is that we are experiencing institutional constraints due to the sheer volume.
This is not an excuse.
But it has dramatically changed the workings of bureaucracy and bureaucracy to expand it on the scale we are now askingA. to scale.
No matter what institution it is, what it is dealing with, no matter it is a factory that makes widgets, no matter it is a court case file from 1,000 cases to 10,000 cases.
In all of these cases, you will encounter institutional constraints when trying to scale up.
This goes back to the original sin here, right? this is the war itself.
I mean, we are able to organize a certain degree of social consensus and resources at the front end.
We tell ourselves that we will not forget about it again on the back end.
But there is something basic and profound about the way a country goes to war and the way it goes to politics, when it goes to war, when it comes out, these things are in my mind.
What we were able to command in the frenzy of national unity for war is-no matter how loyal individuals or citizens are, the other side of this war looks very different and I think they are.
I mean, politicians.
I think it\'s the responsibility of citizens, right?
Yes, it feels real.
Yes, it\'s not fake.
But it is very different in front and back end.
MADDOW: So, in terms of the political power of the veterans, I think the veterans know-when you talk to the veterans group, they realize that I say, it sounds cynical, but the emotional appeal that they can generate makes people feel their services, and in fact, we sell in commercial advertising to make people feel good about family life and all these things, is there any example when they try to turn these things into something more specific and policy-based?
Do we learn from the social movements of the United States or the balance of power in the United States how best to make these things work?
Hayes: I think, I mean,a)
Shame, right? MADDOW: Yes.
Hayes: our shame, the shame of the kind of photo we see that failed country in the past is valid, right?
I also think what we have seen is-this is a lot that you \'ve covered-many veterans who have come back from Iraq and Afghanistan are organized as political forces, something has been done to organize any constituency in American politics, which is to put pressure directly on elected officials to join forces to express their opinions.
Agencies such as IAVA have taken many effective interventions on independent policy issues.
It\'s just the fact that at the end of it there\'s no problem solved, right? MADDOW: Yes.
Hayes: no one will-I mean, the hydraulic way American democracy works is that they rest where they are indifferent to those in power or more.
You just have to keep against it. (CROSSTALK)
Hayes: there is not much conceptual rhetoric or emotional commitment from our leaders or citizens that will permanently ensure what veterans deserve. MADDOW: Yes.
Hearing them speak for themselves as clearly and powerfully as they do through groups like IAVA makes me hope that we will be addressed rather than all the clichés. HAYES: Yes.
Goodbye, Chris Hayes.
I like to talk to you about these things.
I can\'t wait for your new show.
We\'re excited too.
Really, the whole building is one (ph).
We are very excited.
Chris Hayes\'s new show is \"all with Chris Hayes.
It premiered in the East at 8: 00 on Monday at MSNBC.
We will be back soon. (
Business break)
This happened last week in Panhandle, Texas.
We are the first news agency to show you these pictures. Look at this.
Oil and gas workers are fracking in hemfield County, Texas.
That is, they, under very high pressure, force the pipes into the ground with water and other chemicals to get the oil that would otherwise not be available.
But in this case, this happened last week, something went wrong and the casing failed. A seven-inch-
The wide pipe failed miserably, basically exploding, which fired what they called a fracking pile into the air.
As you can see in this photo, put it in a nearby truck.
Surprisingly, no one was killed.
The accident injured only one person and suffered a concussion.
Bob Cavnar, an oil industry veteran who is blogging on \"this little planet\", is the one who brought us attention this week.
These photos are incredible.
The fracking pile now in use in hemfield County is part of a nearby truck, and the fracking pile is a bit like a blowout preventer.
Do you remember the blowout preventer for the Deepwater Horizon accident?
For onshore drilling like this, the fracturing pile should work like this and keep the wellhead under control if something goes wrong.
Well, this is after this kerfuffle in Hemphill County, where the wellhead used to be.
In the most profitable industry in the world, a spectacular, very obvious failure is often a very, very obvious form of failure.
In this regard, I saw you in Hemphill, Texas, the fracking accident, and I made you a very senior executive at Shell Oil.
This is a very strange story.
This is coming. (
Business break)
Meet David Lawrence, United States.
David Lawrence, a trip to the United States
David Lawrence is a senior.
Senior executives of Shell Oil for 29 years have been brilliant and profitable.
He is executive vice president of exploration and business at Shell\'s Upstream Americas division, a strange way for him to drill the Americas for Shell.
Last year, when the federal government specifically allowed Shell to start drilling in the Arctic, Shell\'s drilling operations in the Americas were greatly promoted.
Many oil companies want to do so, but Shell has succeeded.
David Lawrence was in charge of the matter.
As Shell prepares to start drilling in the Arctic
Lawrence gave Dow Jones an interview in which he predicted that drilling in the Arctic was \"relatively easy \".
It turned out to be relatively wrong.
After getting permission to start drilling, Shell just slammed it.
They sent the two rigs there to start drilling.
The one on the left is called the discoverer, and the one on the right is called Kulluk.
Last summer, the discoverer ran aground after dragging the anchor through the Aleutian Islands.
Four months later, a fire broke out in its computer room. Then, the U. S.
The Coast Guard boarded the ship for inspection and found more than a dozen violations involving safety and contaminated equipment on the rig.
For example, the cooling water of the main engine piston is contaminated with sludge and oil.
The crew are dealing with it with the oil in the spoon in the bucket. That`s nice. Nice.
Security violations caused the Coast Guard to detain the rig at the port.
They then referred it to the Justice Department to see if Shell was also guilty of criminal offences.
So it\'s the discoverer.
The other Shell rig is Kuruk.
Not only are the kurukhs almost stranded.
It really ran aground.
Earlier this year, the kurouk lost power and began drifting, eventually hitting an island off the southern coast of Alaska, where they were stranded for a few days and finally dragged it away.
Well, there\'s new news to be reported tonight.
It is reported that there is now a federal criminal investigation.
Coast guard officials said today that they had completed their investigation into kurouk.
They have now asked the Justice Department to review their potential violations.
So Shell\'s two Arctic rigs, the only two of which were sent there, are now being targeted by the US Department of Justice.
But keep in mind that drilling is relatively easy in the Alaska Arctic.
This could be a good time to tell you this earlier this week.
\"Don\'t worry, it will be easy for us to have this/Arctic drilling already, peasy\" announced that he will resign from Shell after 29 years at the company.
The country has been working hard to open up drilling in the Arctic.
Let the oil companies run crazy there.
No one knows how to deal with these things better than they do.
So far, a company has been allowed to do so.
Both of the company\'s rigs are under federal investigation.
The administrative person in charge is out of work.
Shell has announced that it will stop all drilling operations in the Arctic for the rest of the year.
Why is this not a bigger story?
Now, it\'s time to say the last word to Lawrence O\'Donnell.
\"Thank you very much for being with us tonight.
Have a good evening.
This is a report card in a hurry.
This copy may not be in final form and may be updated.
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